Luis Pacheco assumed the position in August 2022, four months after the dismissal of the previous official, however, it was until this month that he attended the request and talked with Free press. In the extract of the interview, it explains the community consultation processes that are being carried out and the work regarding new projects.
Also, he talked about social conflict, which persists and that it is very difficult to establish a schedule, but claims to have good communication with each community, however, he said that it has been a bit difficult to resume that confidence for the damages that different governments have caused to populations.
How many community consultations have in process?
The processes with sentence of San Juan Cotzal (Quiché), San José Nacahuil (municipality of San Pedro Ayampuc in Guatemala), that of Parliament Xinca (Santa Rosa) and one in Izabal.
In which phase are they?
In issues of conflict we cannot talk about time because this depends a lot on indigenous communities, sentences are also based on agreement 169 that clearly establishes that the uses and customs of each people must be respected.
However, it is being able to move forward with meetings and gradually retaking confidence.
In the case of the San Juan Cotzal consultation, the indigenous authorities have already presented us a proposal, we are trying to move forward with the schedule of activities.
With sentence we have the consultation only for the towers and the transmission lines, where the person in charge is the company Transnova. Palo Viejo is the ENEL hydroelectric generator.
It is necessary to emphasize that Guatemala does not have the mechanism to carry out a consultation without sentence.
Among the current management we will implement what refers to previous consultations, because those that are already being carried out are consultations for sentences, therefore, the risks that the company is already working must be analyzed and the consultation has not been made.
What is the situation of the consultation in San José Nacahuil?
In San José Nacahuil, for the Mining Project Derived Progress VII, we have maintained dialogues with the corresponding indigenous authorities. This year we have two meetings.
We hope to have the schedule of activities to enter the preconsultation. The State has proposals (dates), but the indigenous authorities will give us the times and ways in which they will take the information to the communities and the decision making.
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In the issue of social conflict it is very difficult to have times and establish the moment, but with each one we have had good communication, it has been a bit difficult to resume that confidence for the damages that different governments have caused to the communities.
How does the process for consultation for the El Escobal project progress?
With the Xinca Parliament we are moving forward, it is one of the consultations that have been. Now they are in the transfer of information to the communities, and we have advanced by 75% in this consultation.
We continue with the dialogues, waiting for us to give us the result of that stage and from there we hope to have the route clearer.
How long could this process end?
A schedule as we don’t have it. In Guatemala all indigenous communities have their own way of transferring information and decision -making, so it becomes complex to be able to give a stipulated time. We would like this year to culminate it.
Sometimes times are given, but they are not real because there are communities, and I do not speak specifically of Santa Rosa but of many communities, where the decision does not take it in a single assembly, but in two or three meetings.
The issue of conflict is difficult, Agreement 169 (of the ILO), which is one of the fundamental bases, clearly establishes that the State must respect the uses and customs of indigenous communities.
What project is consulting in Izabal?
It is in the Estor, Izabal. We have to carry out a consultation in (hot water) lot 9 and dialogue tables (related to the project) Fénix. The sentence only indicates lot 9, but being in the area, other communities say they are affected and are integrated. The State becomes complex because when there is a sentence, it gives us that parameter to act.
For previous consultations, any methodology is being defined?
When I took possession we realized that the consultations have been made only by sentence.
A mechanism as such is difficult to propose because, how to identify the leaders who will be within this consultation, or who owns the land. There are many farms that have given land to many families, so there is a conflict of interest because then the owner arrives and says that they have only lent them the land and why they have to consult them.
There are many issues that arise in the field, but at least it is trying to implement something that is necessary not to reach the amparos.
There is a space where it has been determined wrongly or misunderstanding non -metallic mining, (segment) where there are files to review each document, we already form a group where there is an environmental engineer, a lawyer and an anthropologist, who go out to the field visit to determine the indigenous communities.
Then we give the information to the Mining Directorate if it were a mining exploitation issue, and inform you that we identify indigenous communities and recommend making the consultation.
Then they should tell us to make the consultation. Many times there is talk to whom the project proposes and it is indicated that it is necessary to consult to avoid future wear, both for the State and for the employer, in this way we are trying to implement the previous consultations. We have not had the opportunity to start one, we do not know the implications that we are going to find.
Is this for non -metallic mining?
Yes, non -metallic mining, are topics of areneras, poma, construction materials, among others.
For metallic, a prior consultation process will also be established or already exists?
A process as we don’t have it, but it will be the same. We must have the procedure for the identification of indigenous peoples and from there the consultation, this is for everything. It is what should have been done long before to avoid wear as it is (today).
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Will the process be derived from Agreement 169?
Yes, it is the one that regulates and establishes the consultation processes.
The Constitution speaks of indigenous rights and peoples, but does not establish a consultation as such, then 169 is the legal norm that is contributing to the fact that we manage to carry out the consultations.
Are you going to create a regulation or manual?
A manual to bring general guidelines for consultations yes, but no regulation.
Regulating the agreement is impossible in Guatemala for the diversity of cultures that there are. Having the guidelines to carry out consultations is very different because it is based on sentences, jurisprudence, international agreement, in experiences of other countries, but are general guidelines. The very particular guidelines of each community, is another situation, because in the decision making, the dates even influence, there are indigenous peoples that indicate that they will see the Mayan calendar, others report that it would be a date of a Sunday.
Are there new applications for projects for which they must consult prior?
As Vice Ministry of Sustainable Development we have identified four. We hope to have that experience with those four that are still in process, it is not that it starts.
How many are miners or hydroelectric plants?
The four are mining.
Of any specific material?
For construction.
When can you implement prior consultation?
I would expect that in the middle of this year we already have the first experience. But everything is a process because the field work is also needed before, inspection.
The area of affectation is also complex because depending on the type of projects it will be the area.
For previous consultations, have you elaborated the document to see the steps and the procedure?
Internally we already have a basic procedure manual for consultation and a manual for recognition of indigenous peoples, these are basic because different situations arise in the field.
The procedure for recognition of indigenous peoples is implemented now. The guidelines to carry out the consultations already had a previous document and compared with ideas that gave indigenous professionals who know a lot about the subject. That is what helps to have a diverse inclusion in institutions because different points of view are seen.
When this government began, it was announced that they would work in a mining moratorium. Is it at this time in mining moratorium?
No. There was a proposal, which was proposed. Right now Minera yet we don’t have it.
The interest was to have it to have the necessary deadlines to mitigate these problems.
After having presided over the 48 cantons, what was the process to reach this position, a procedure passed, was invited to participate as an official in this government?
I received the call, as well as everyone. A call came out of the President (of the Republic) to the indigenous authorities. There were five villages who asked me to represent them.
Under those terms I started and presented the stationery to the General Secretariat and waited for the processes. There was no direct invitation of the government, I managed to fill out the requirements.
It may also be that the support of these peoples, which at the time, supported me, managed to make me also here, but, they had to fill out the requirements established.
This space (position) is very dialogue, it is very understanding of indigenous peoples, much understanding how decisions are made. Part of this was that capacity they managed to determine in me based on the previous processes we had.
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The relationship of this vice -aspacho is both with indigenous authorities and with entrepreneurs and with international community. Then we have to know how to communicate with each one and assimilate the proposals, because here comes businessmen where they demand that we hurry with the consultations, but we cannot hurry; The communities come and they tell us that “you are imposing us”, but we do not impose but we have resolutions that send us to do things; And the international community comes and asks us what is happening with the consultation processes.
So, we have to look for the way to see that we are doing work and function, but that many things do not depend only on the ministry.
At this time what is your relationship with the 48 cantons and with the business sector?
With both it is a employment relationship. As 48 cantons did in his manifesto his autonomy is maintained, that autonomy between the State and indigenous authorities has always been maintained and that is respected. I am from Totonicapán, but I no longer represent the authorities (of 48 cantons). This does not mean that we do not have communication, at any time we can have a dialogue.
With entrepreneurs in the same way. The attention and service as a public official is for all, as much as for entrepreneurs and for indigenous communities. Communication is general and remains for everyone.